Are dreams an exception then? You have an inner dialogue only in your dreams? I don't think you can say that you have an inner dialogue, if the only evidence of it is in your dream.
> "Growing up as an only child — before my younger brother was born — I often played alone, and my inner voice became my companion."
Being the oldest kid of four in a family, I think I had some similar experiences growing up. Your "my companion" reminds me that I apparently -- according to my mother, gawd rest her soul -- had several such "imaginary friends" who I apparently named Kip and Kak. Though can't say I remember anything about them -- sort of a case of Puff the Magic Dragon.
But kind of a fascinating phenomenon in many ways. You probably know of a book by Julian Jaynes, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind":
I haven't read that book yet, but I’ll definitely check it out
As for the "imaginary friends," I think I was more self-aware. I never really spoke to anyone, I was conscious that I was talking to myself, not to an actual person.
I am curious, did you "see" Kip and Kap or did you know you were talking to yourself?
Seem to recollect that Richard Dawkins kind of touted that book of Jaynes' in his own The God Delusion -- think that was where I first ran across the idea of imaginary friends.
But I have no recollection at all of "Kip and Kak" -- only that my mother said that they had been my "friends" -- kind of why I thought of a possible similarity with Puff the Magic Dragon:
"A dragon lives forever, but not so, little boys
Painted wings and giants' rings make way for other toys
One grey night it happened, Jackie Paper came no more
And Puff, that mighty dragon, he ceased his fearless roar"
Possibly my own "friends" disappeared when I realized I was, in effect, talking to myself.
But fascinating process how we, particularly as kids, develop our senses of self. I've often argued that the "final frontier" of Star Trek lies not out among the stars but between our ears. 🙂
Perhaps yoy are right. Like in the vygitsky theory, when the voice turned from outside to inside -> the friends dissapeared…Its almost like a coping mechanism
But "outside to inside", indeed. Kind of a phase change, consciousness as an emergent property. 🙂
Somewhat apropos of which, you may have have been following the discussions on "super-intelligent" AI -- where's the magic spark between Jehovah and Adam, the threshold between machine and man, the point at which a "ghost", a soul takes up residence? A maybe darker element being Yeats', "what rough beast slouches towards Bethlehem, waiting its hour to be born?"
Maybe somewhat more poetically, if a bit sardonic, I'm reminded of the quip that those who talk to god are devout, but those who think god talks to them are mad. 🙂
I have heard people who grew up in abusive environments say that they created imaginary friends with names and personalities to whom they would seek recourse to from time to time in escape.
Could you also share the link of the YouTube video you talked about. I would like to check it out
that means they never dream. I dont think its possible.
I may be wrong, but I think the girl in the video said that She does dream - but there is no sound or dialogue.
Then that would qualify as
Internal dialog but the language is symbolic. Sometimes I do that.
Are dreams an exception then? You have an inner dialogue only in your dreams? I don't think you can say that you have an inner dialogue, if the only evidence of it is in your dream.
Interesting question. Only in my dream do I have an inner symbolic dialogue. When awake, the inner dialogue is auditory.
Interesting. I have not heard that before
> "Growing up as an only child — before my younger brother was born — I often played alone, and my inner voice became my companion."
Being the oldest kid of four in a family, I think I had some similar experiences growing up. Your "my companion" reminds me that I apparently -- according to my mother, gawd rest her soul -- had several such "imaginary friends" who I apparently named Kip and Kak. Though can't say I remember anything about them -- sort of a case of Puff the Magic Dragon.
But kind of a fascinating phenomenon in many ways. You probably know of a book by Julian Jaynes, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind
Can't say I've ever read it -- too many books, too little time -- but it certainly seems a plausible and intriguing hypothesis.
I haven't read that book yet, but I’ll definitely check it out
As for the "imaginary friends," I think I was more self-aware. I never really spoke to anyone, I was conscious that I was talking to myself, not to an actual person.
I am curious, did you "see" Kip and Kap or did you know you were talking to yourself?
Seem to recollect that Richard Dawkins kind of touted that book of Jaynes' in his own The God Delusion -- think that was where I first ran across the idea of imaginary friends.
But I have no recollection at all of "Kip and Kak" -- only that my mother said that they had been my "friends" -- kind of why I thought of a possible similarity with Puff the Magic Dragon:
"A dragon lives forever, but not so, little boys
Painted wings and giants' rings make way for other toys
One grey night it happened, Jackie Paper came no more
And Puff, that mighty dragon, he ceased his fearless roar"
https://genius.com/Peter-paul-and-mary-puff-the-magic-dragon-lyrics
Possibly my own "friends" disappeared when I realized I was, in effect, talking to myself.
But fascinating process how we, particularly as kids, develop our senses of self. I've often argued that the "final frontier" of Star Trek lies not out among the stars but between our ears. 🙂
Yes!
Perhaps yoy are right. Like in the vygitsky theory, when the voice turned from outside to inside -> the friends dissapeared…Its almost like a coping mechanism
Bookmarked and skimmed 🙂:
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ815614.pdf
But "outside to inside", indeed. Kind of a phase change, consciousness as an emergent property. 🙂
Somewhat apropos of which, you may have have been following the discussions on "super-intelligent" AI -- where's the magic spark between Jehovah and Adam, the threshold between machine and man, the point at which a "ghost", a soul takes up residence? A maybe darker element being Yeats', "what rough beast slouches towards Bethlehem, waiting its hour to be born?"
Maybe somewhat more poetically, if a bit sardonic, I'm reminded of the quip that those who talk to god are devout, but those who think god talks to them are mad. 🙂
This was SO fascinating!!
I have heard people who grew up in abusive environments say that they created imaginary friends with names and personalities to whom they would seek recourse to from time to time in escape.
Could you also share the link of the YouTube video you talked about. I would like to check it out
ahh yes!
https://youtu.be/u69YSh-cFXY?si=UCUSs33PRoMdYSHd
Just watched. Very fascinating stuff
Thanks